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and this is weapons

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okay so this guy is kind of opening up

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to you and as a journalist at this point

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in your career and and going into

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digging into Bob's our story and hearing

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this this is the first time we start

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talking about a living like an operator

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of these vehicles

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so how did that how did you feel when he

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is a guy telling you a story how did

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that make you feel this is no longer

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just about craft and propulsion which is

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all that Bob was involved with but he

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saw documents that they showed me that

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Bob doesn't know if they're real or not

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really says I didn't see that I saw the

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propulsion system but he read a bunch of

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[\h__\h] when when O'Donnell says to you Al

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O'Donnell when he says to you we had a

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live alien a being

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obviously From Another World what was

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your feeling

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while I was overwhelmed because it was

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in effect confirmation of things that I

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had come to believe because of the

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reporting we'd already done uh and then

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the evidence of cover-ups and lies that

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have been told to the public here's this

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guy in a high position with the high

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security clearance telling me that it

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was true that they really did have a

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craft and they had a being my second

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feeling was one of overwhelming sadness

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for the uh the being whatever it was you

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know that was kept out there I asked him

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you know what had happened to what

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became of it he says I don't know I

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don't know what ever happened to it but

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he was out there for a while alive and

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eventually they figured out a way to

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communicate with it and so I asked him

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well what did it look like and he made

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me guess as he did with all these

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questions they made me guess he said

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well kind of looks like a a certain

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political candidate I said well who what

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a politically the other two and at the

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time Ross Perot was running for

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president he said it looks like Ross

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Perot a little skinny guy with uh big

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ears and a tiny head not a classic gray

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looking alien but a very odd looking uh

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creature with really big ears that

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looked like Ross Perot and I laughed and

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so we had these conversations for a

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while

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and I was blown away by the information

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they shared I took all these notes I did

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I was hoping that someday I might be

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able to get the information out and I

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asked him look you're getting up there

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in age can you if I can't record

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something with you could you record a

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statement the effect of tell me this

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story on camera and then when when you

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pass on I could have the tape and he

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said yeah he would do it you know look

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I've I've heard a lot of wild stories

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that I can't verify a guy's telling you

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something and you get a sense as a

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journalist when you go down a road with

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somebody and you take your time and you

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vet it

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did you feel I mean is there any world

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where he's trying to [\h__\h] with you or is

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there a world where he's

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um trying to you know just get you know

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kind of put crazy information into your

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brain like what did you how did you feel

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when he was telling you this was it was

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he like straight with you like explain

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that to me yeah he was very

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straightforward and again this was not

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information he was giving up willingly I

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mean I had to really dig and coax and

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arm twist to get him to cough things up

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and it was very slow going over about a

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two-year period maybe a little bit

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longer and I know that this you always

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have to be wary of people with different

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agendas and people that just make stuff

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up I didn't get that sense from him

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because of his standing in the community

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he had shared this story with members of

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his own family and that's how that's why

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they came to use because they kind of

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give you a tip and these members of his

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family they they're um I mean they're

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serious people too yeah so the the other

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Sons is an FBI agent or was he's passed

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on now one of his sons was in FBI I was

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an elected official elected official

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where in Nevada okay yeah I was the one

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that gave me the tip but uh so I just

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want to nail this in so I understand you

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were approached because he had shared

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this with his family privately and then

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you had to kind of coax to get through

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to him about the story right I think

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that's important because look these

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things don't happen like people just

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come to us and say you know crazy stuff

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and we're like oh yeah cool sounds good

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like the dynamic of that socially as a

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journalist like getting in there taking

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time you know we have to verify if what

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he said is true and there's there's some

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major bombs coming about that but it's

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like that process is so important so

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here you are you're sitting with him he

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tells you now they had a liability and

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you felt sad because you're an animal

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rights activist you love animals I know

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with your cats at home and you do you've

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done horse stories and all you know all

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the stories about like the inhumane

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stuffed animals so it made you

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personally sad makes me sad too now

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thinking about it but yeah well we had

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these series of meetings and then the

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last time we met after he'd agreed to go

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ahead and record a tape and give it to

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me after you make an arrangement so I

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got it after he passed on

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he said that he'd been told to not talk

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to me anymore he said he'd been given a

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warning that was not a good idea for him

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to talk to me anymore about anything not

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just that topic but anything well who

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knows that you're talking who would warn

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him I don't know I don't know but you'll

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recall back in those days there was

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surveillance we had our phones tapped at

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klasdb there were guys following us

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around me Bob Lazar Gene Huff maybe

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Robert Bigelow people were also coming

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to your news station OSI

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um

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and they would they would come in and

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try to like get to you and then they'd

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show you their card and as if they put

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it down then take it back and you know

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your phones are tapped so it's like

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because of this story all of a sudden

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you're on high alert so anybody could

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have called him and watching you have

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meetings with the guy but once so what

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you're saying is one day it just Dr he

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just said I can't I'm not allowed to

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talk to you yeah I've been told not to

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talk to you anymore I've been told not

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to that happened a lot to you during

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that time how many witnesses came

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forward to verify babazar's story and

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then got shut down and tell me one yeah

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a bunch of them I mean there were six

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right in a row that I spoke to on the

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phone who had agreed to meet with me and

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share the story some of them on camera

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who were visited the very next day one

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after another because I had put out a I

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I was overt about it asking people in

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the community I know there are people

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out there listening to this TV broadcast

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who have information about this

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come on and tell us about it yeah call

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me up and several of them did and one

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right after another six in a row that

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called me and agreed to do an interview

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were visited the next day and told to to

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shut the hell up okay so how did that

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feel as a journal so I've had a similar

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experience where you're talking with

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somebody and all of a sudden they're

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told not to talk with you by who is a

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mystery and then do they threaten them

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yeah they threatened them so there was

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one there was a cop that was a friend of

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mine he's just passed on as of last year

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who was a investigator police officer

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and then later became a chief

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investigator for the District Attorney's

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Office who worked at the County

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Courthouse after most stories came out

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in 1989 it's the it's the Talk of the

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Town it's everyone's buzzing about it

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and he got into a conversation with the

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lady who worked as a clerk in the county

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court system and she said she shared a

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story with him that she had previously

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worked for a defense contractor named

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Holmes and narber out at the test site

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and or on the Nellis Air Force Base

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right change that she said and on

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meetings between high-ranking Air Force

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officials and these defense contractors

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at which they discussed crashed saucers

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recovered materials and what sounded

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like a Roswell type incident and the

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security was so uh strict that after

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she's taken notes in these meetings

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they'd not only take the notes away from

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her but they'd take the typewriter

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ribbon of the typewriter and destroy it

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so the ribbon on the typewriter didn't

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have the words printed on it I've heard

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it she told the story to this cop that I

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knew he told me the story I said hey do

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you think she talked to me well yeah

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she'd probably talk to you if you uh

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kept her name out of it kept her

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identity shielded and I said great so I

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talked to her on the phone a couple of

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days later she agreed to meet with me

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and give me the whole rundown on this

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story the very next day she gets a knock

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on the door by these two agents who said

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that they represented the company that

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she had worked for this defense

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contractor and that she was still

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subject they reminded her she's still

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subject to uh her security clearances

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and missions that that she had agreed to

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and they said this we know that you

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travel to La a lot to see your daughter

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and that she comes here it's a big

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desert out there we'd hate for anything

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to happen to either one of you would she

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interpreted as a threat to her life and

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I think that's a pretty fair

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interpretation she was scared

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she was scared to death and it was a

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decade later that I reached out to her

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again she was still scared and wouldn't

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talk to him a decade later she's still

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scared I won't talk to you so two

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questions one is is this female is she

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still alive no she died two years ago oh

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man oh okay now the second thing is is

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who was the contractor Holmes and narber

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was the name of the Holmes at an arbor

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so they sent people who said so people

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came to her house physically who said

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they were from homes don't know if yeah

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don't know who they really were and they

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did threaten what she felt was a threat

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to her life to talk to you about crashed

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UFOs and and they see and that happened

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to you a lot during that time well six

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times right in a row within a three or

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four month period

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um there was a guy who was he did taxes

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for Air Force officials and he got to

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know some of these guys really well and

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they had told him a story about the

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Roswell crash they were watching a TV

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show on some out of town trip and said

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hey that that's real and he wanted to

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tell me that story and I said great I'll

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come over to see tomorrow or the next

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day in between my visit he was visited

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by two guys who said they're from the

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Secret Service and they said we

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understand you've been making threats

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against the life of the president he

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said what are you talking about I never

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made such threats well look you can go

278
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to prison for this kind of thing you

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want to keep your mouth your mouth shut

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you don't want to be flapping it which

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he and interpreted as being a threat to

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him to keep quiet it's it's clearly a

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threat so the thing is we don't know

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where these people are really coming

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from anybody the people show me their

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badges all the time anybody can make a

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badge so we don't know if that if

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they're actually from there and then to

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say something out of left field over

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Secret Service you're making threats

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against the president like obviously

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this person wasn't doing nothing of the

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sort this is UFO related someone is

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somehow knowing who you're talking with

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we know your phones are tapped at klas

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the news station and they're silencing

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Witnesses at this critical time of

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coming forward it really pissed me off

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because you know now we assume that

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people are listening to our phone films

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and our conversations and monitoring

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email all of us have that sort of back

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out of our head that it all goes into

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some giant super computer somewhere that

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that nothing is truly private anymore

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but back then the idea that there are

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government entities operatives listening

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to the phone calls that come into a TV

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station a news reporter a journalist an

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investigative journalist that is

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outrageous that is that is spying on an

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American journalist and contacting

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sources and dissuading them through

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threats physical harm to not talk with